New to Hiller New to forum

General talk about the Hiller helicopter

New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Root Pass » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:22 pm

I'm new to the forum and just discovered the Hiller UH12. We are farmers in North Central FL so I spend a lot of time riding on a tractor. Plenty of time to think! I ALMOST wish I had never heard of the UH12! Now I'm crunching the numbers to see the benefits of spraying peanuts ( approx.1200 acres), looking at flight schools etc. My only aircraft experience is in a Marine Corps Squadron as a Parachute Rigger/ Flight Equipment Marine .I'm sure other farms would like the speed and convenience of contracting their spraying also...LOL I'm afraid this potential adventure may cost me a new house. Not in a divorce but in "permission tax" if you catch my drift. I sure hate to read some of the things about Sid Evans (fraud, loss of license, signing other peoples signatures, false names, pyramid schemes, romanians). He is only a couple hours south of us. But that is what make these forums so great. The free sharing of info, opinions and experiences. Any opinions? Any forum members in FL?
Thanks for the great resource that is this forum!
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Root Pass » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:21 am

Thanks DT
I sent you a PM. I'm sure I'll have alot of questions for the forum.

Semper Fi 8)
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Root Pass » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:18 pm

Thanks for letting me pick your brains.
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Tim Tyler » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:06 pm

I believe you are on the right track with your interest in starting out with a Hiller. I certainly would recomment an A, B or C model as your fist helicopter. I bought my first helicopter about 7 years ago and it was a C model and it had some engine issues. (making metal) I removed the engine and found a busted piston skirt (relatively common on the 210 Hp Franklin). Also, the people who built the engine previously had done a poor job af fitting the crankshaft seal to the wiper cup and it leaked oil badly at the top of the engine. This is determined by sticking your finger in one of the witness holes at the starter clutch (Mercury Clutch) housing and finding oil at the bottom of the housing. Their "fix" was to drill a hole in the bottom of the housing and letting the oil drain down the side of the engine rather than splitting the engine/transmission and properly setting the seal on the cup..

I overhauled the engine and had all the cylinders overhauled by a shop which will remain nameless. I reassembeled the engine (I am an A&P and IA) and ran it for about 10 hours and began to notice an unusual high speed vibration. I never could find the source and stopped flying the airplane. By this time, my budget for helicopters was gone and I was hurting for cash to keep the helicopter flying.

As it turned out, the people who overhauled the cylinders ground the liners off center (one of them in excess of 70 thousandths) and this had caused the rods to rock on the crankshaft journals which made an catastrophic engine failure an inevitability. it needed overhaul and reinstallation.

I flew that helicopter for another 2 years with only ordinary maintenance performed. Any other maintenance issues I had were the result of my actions.


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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby vpcjn » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:47 am

Hey root pass,
drop me a line at KT4AL@att.net
Emmett
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Root Pass » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:07 pm

Thanks Emmett I'll do that now. It would be nice to get together!
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N57CR Help

Postby Goochmac2 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:18 pm

Hi,
I'm new to the group--looking for anyone who has information on a 12c N57CR.
Looking for anyone who has a Hiller in New york, New Jersey, PA. area--thanks--Martin
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby NRE » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:23 am

I did not know if you need any additional info from a local Florida Hiller Pilot. Been in the Hiller world for about three years now and I am just North of you in Gainesville Florida. Even though I'm a short term Hiller pilot, I have learned a lot in a short amount of time. I think you will be very pleased with your choice of a Hiller. If you want to, e-mail me direct and I'll give you my phone # if you have any questions.
Regarding mechanics, I have been told nothing but good things about Pat out at Fort Wolters. I have called him a number of times and ordered a number of parts from him.He has been been a great deal of help and I wish he was closer to Fl.
There are also a few others in the country that I have been told good things about.
Regarding United and Sid Evans, I have been told a number of stories as well. I cant say anything but from my own experience with Sid.

If you have any questions, send me a note.
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby swed » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:33 pm

I too am interested in buying a hiller, particularly Muds D in Jerome Idaho. But I pose the question of how do I keep the machine from turning from
vintage helicopter to museum piece when components become timed out, broken wrecked ect. In my mind the Hiller is the most fantastic machine
built in class but under the current state of Hiller not to own. Anybody? am I wrong?
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Tim Tyler » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:12 pm

About buying a "D" or "E" model Hiller, Be sure to have good blades!!! Have an experienced and reputable person whi is VERY familiar with reading log book entries concerning Hiller main rotor blades go over the records and actually perform a visiual inspection of the blades. I would recomment Jimmy nProbst of Rotor Craft in Black Rock Arkansas or Eddy Johnson in Porterville California to do this inspection.

If the Blades are no longer airworthy or are questionable, avoid the machine!! You will be, in fact, buying a museum piece.

If I had it to do over, I would never have bought my UH12 E4L and would have bought another "C" model.

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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby swed » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:35 pm

Thanks Tim-
The said helicopter has around 1000 hrs left on the blades. I need to put 1000 hrs on the machine over the next 10 years. Then I need
to sell or put new blades on. Thats the rub either option may prove to be impossible. Is the C a more viable option because of the blades?
I like the capability of the D,E, I like others, cannot believe the lack
of support from the manufacturer or some other organization to legally and officially remanufacture parts (including rotors) to keep thse machines in the air.
Thanks for the info, If I can buy a machine, I am leaning towards a 300c for obvious reasons.
Thankyou, Swed
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Plumberpilot » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:32 am

I don't know about the 300C but I can tell a few stories about TH55s and 269As. Hiller's really good up side not to be over looked is the fact that most anybody can overhaul the entire helicopter, not so with others. And not to keep picking on 269s but the company has no problem issuing AD notes that make you return to them for a part that costs thousands or they make you ship them a part for them to determine if you'll be purchasing a new part. I'm not just talking blades either. My TH55s had many ADs over the years and even though I really liked flying the bird I just hated to see any letter from SAC. The D you are looking at also has a high time head assembly I believe so there's another big $$ and hard to find item. If I were you I'd buy a Hiller for 30-40K more that has lots of remaining time on the blades and head. If you need to fly 1000 hrs and you buy a 70K Hiller just start looking for components asap. They do pop up from time to time but as was said you have to be careful. You could always buy a Robbie, better to own half a bird than none at all :-)

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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby swed » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:23 am

Thanks Ricky-
Ive gotten so much information, some conflicting, I looked at the specs of the said D didnt even notice the high time hub, I guess thats why its
essential to get an expert to look at the books. Fort Wolters seems to have a few good ones for sale. A trip to LaPaz would be fun even if a guy
didnt come away with a helicopter.
Thanks, Swed
P.S. thats a great looking ship you have, Thanks again
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Plumberpilot » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:20 pm

Thanks for the compliment, there's several good Hillers out there but they just aren't advertised right now, you might want to run a wanted ad here and in Tradeaplane, that will get you a look at some Hillers. Over the last few years I've seen some really low time D and E Hillers for sale for around 100 to 120K. If you get one with a low time set of Mains and a low time head and don't ding it, you could fly off the 1000 hrs and sell just those items for very nearly what you paid for the whole ship. The value of the helicopter is in those 2 items. The main blades will run 6700 hrs and the hub and forks are 2500 hr items from new so you can see there's room to burn off 1000 and still have great value remaining provided you buy right. Hiller recently released some new hubs and forks so maybe that will take a little pressure off those components. Blades can be bought but they are pretty pricey and you have to be sure what you are buying.
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Re: New to Hiller New to forum

Postby Plumberpilot » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:23 pm

Swed
I just took another look at the Mexico Hiller. That's a perfect example of my point, I think the price with spares was 165 which is plenty however if you don't even consider the spares you can fly that E for 1100 hrs and sell it needing a 1200 O/H and get nearly all your money back just because of the Head and Main Blades. The FAA paper work is really not that big of a deal and Pat can do it I'm sure. It will take a little time and a few bucks. But always remember when you fly any aircraft there's a chance of a component failing before TBO but that's a chance we all take. It's the price of freedom I always say. They might/will be flexible on the $$$ which would make it an even better deal if you can swing the outlay.
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